[LUAU] Am I going to TPOSSCON - If not why?

[Maddog]

Jim,

Maybe a good draw would be to have vendors set up your FOSS suggestions? If 
we have local vendors that can support those you may be on to something.

Don
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Maddog" <maddog at heavymetalradio.net>
To: "LUAU" <luau at lists.hosef.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: [LUAU] Am I going to TPOSSCON - If not why?


> With Hawaii being in the top 5 most expensive resort destinations and the 
> cost to get people and equipment and supplies here it becomes cost 
> prohibitive.
>
> You can get a business rate room in Vegas for $40 a night. No income tax 
> also is a plus.
>
> Orlando Hotels also have package rates that make it attractive and most of 
> the attendees come from the midwest or east coast so airfare is not 
> extremely expensive.
>
> Hawaii has several problems as a destination and most are political. We 
> are in the top three in the U.S. for taxation and if the metrics truly 
> measured the effect of the pyramided tax system here we would be number 
> one. Hence the reason for paying $0.50+ more a gallon for gas (which is 
> still a bargain compared to bottled water) that our mainland counterparts 
> and that is just the cities used to calculate the gas cap. (note: there 
> are many problems here and this is just one example)
>
> Jim made several interesting points but I disagree with his enthusiatic 
> claims about AD and Exchange going away any time soon and VoIP becoming so 
> prevelent for the simple fact that  organizations have committed lots of 
> dollars to those existing infrastructures. You would be hard pressed to 
> replace them for that alone. While the cost of FOSS may be zero dollars 
> the cost of hiring qualified personnel (to replace your existing Windows 
> IT staff or in addition too since there will be a transition period) and 
> the support dollars that it will cost also need to be added into the 
> bottom line. The transition period alone will double the cost of your IT 
> infrastructure spending for the time it takes to complete the transition. 
> ( this is really a complicated subject with many more reasons why it 
> doesn't compute but this is the major reason). VoIP is gaining ground but 
> for ten years it has been the next killer app and still to date has not 
> been widely deployed. It is gaining ground, however.
>
> The biggest problem seems to be the fragmentation within the local 
> OSS/FOSS community. That can be witnessed by this very flame fest and all 
> of the "bcc's" Jim referred to, not to mention the emails and phone calls 
> in the background.
>
> In short a local focus as Matt and Clifton suggested with ties to the 
> local business community seems to have the best chance.
>
> Flame retardant suit donned.
> Don
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Stan Baptista" <sbaptista at yahoo.com>
> To: "LUAU" <luau at lists.hosef.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [LUAU] Am I going to TPOSSCON - If not why?
>
>
>> >this means they reflexively shy away from
>>>associating it with doing serious business.
>>
>> This definitely seems to be the case in Hawaii but
>> there's probably a bit more to it.  Vegas has a major
>> marketing campaign going on these days about "what
>> happens in Vegas stays in Vegas".  Exactly which part
>> of that is about "serious" business?  And yet major
>> business conventions, tech and otherwise, are held in
>> Vegas on a regular basis year after year (Comdex
>> anyone?).
>>
>> Same is true about the theme parks in Orlando (Disney,
>> Epcot, Universal...).  Lot's of fun in the sun there
>> but it really doesn't stop "serious business" in the
>> form of conventions from ocurring regularly.
>>
>> The dirty little secret about conventions is that
>> there is _always_ a junket aspect to them and it
>> doesn't matter whether you're in Minnesota in January
>> or the Bahamas (or Hawaii).
>>
>> It's serious business but not business as usual or
>> ordinary, just different (it's about networking and
>> taking a break from the rat race that you usually deal
>> with in Oshkosh or wherever, and refreshing yourself
>> with new ideas).
>>
>> In the case of Hawaii, I wonder if it's also about
>> cost and perception as much as anything else (i.e.,
>> it's expensive to fly those extra 3K miles from the
>> left coast and Hawaii simply isn't regared as a
>> significant tech area).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Clifton Royston wrote:
>>>
>>> >On Sun, Jan 29, 2006 at 11:17:37PM -1000, Jim
>>> Thompson wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>On Jan 29, 2006, at 10:23 PM, Matt Darnell wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>>I really don't follow this.  For the most part,
>>> people did not attend
>>> >>>>because of the time of year, time of week, and
>>> time of day.  Next
>>> >>>>year
>>> >>>>we will do this on Friday and Saturday.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>I hope changing the day makes a big difference.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>We've had some feedback.  (I saw Scott ask people
>>> for it.)   Here is
>>> >>what I remember of it:
>>> >>
>>> >>1)  Don't count on people from off-island
>>> attending.   I believe that
>>> >>TPOSSCON has been 'marketed' as "come to Hawaii,
>>> enjoy the beach,
>>> >>learn some great stuff, hang out with cool
>>> people".   Based on what
>>> >>I've seen over the last two years, and an earlier
>>> experience when the
>>> >>IETF held a meeting in
>>> >>Honolulu (1989), I don't believe that folks can
>>> "sell" their own
>>> >>management on attending a technical conference in
>>> Hawaii.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >  Yes.  Pat Sullivan of Oceanit and Hoana Medical
>>> has made some very
>>> >astute and enlightening comments on this, and I
>>> have seen it over and
>>> >over again in my technical career here.
>>> >
>>> >  Our tourism industry has spent many millions of
>>> dollars a year over
>>> >many decades to inculcate the image of Hawaii as a
>>> place that is
>>> >carefree, where no serious work gets done.  If most
>>> national executives
>>> >and managers have any experience of Hawaii, they
>>> think of it as a place
>>> >where they had a wonderful time on a honeymoon, or
>>> golfing on a
>>> >luxurious vacation - this means they reflexively
>>> shy away from
>>> >associating it with doing serious business.
>>> >
>>> >  A story of my own: When I was with VeriFone and
>>> involved in setting
>>> >up training for customers' application programmers
>>> (major
>>> >national/international banks) 8 times out of 10,
>>> our customers'
>>> >corporate management would not approve sending
>>> their programmers to
>>> >Hawaii for training as it was automatically viewed
>>> as a junket.
>>> >Sometimes when they did send someone, they'd send a
>>> non-progamming
>>> >manager as a "reward", even though that was useless
>>> in helping them get
>>> >their applications off the ground.  We ultimately
>>> had to move the
>>> >application training centers to the mainland.
>>> Eventually the company
>>> >headquarters went too, for essentially the same
>>> reason.
>>> >
>>> >  This is something we'd better just live with and
>>> plan around, because
>>> >it will take decades to reverse it.  If you want to
>>> work around it, it
>>> >will have to be done on a case-by-case basis, using
>>> an extensive media
>>> >campaign in national tech-oriented media to make
>>> the case that this is
>>> >different.  If you don't have a budget for that,
>>> then focus efforts on
>>> >boosting local attendance.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> Thus, its best to avoid attempting to generate the
>>> audience from
>>> anywhere but Hawaii (and Oahu, in particular).
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> LUAU at lists.hosef.org mailing list
>>> http://lists.hosef.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/luau
>>>
>>
>>
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