[LUAU] Hello - My Name is Scott

[Angela Kahealani]

On Thu, 2008-03-27 01:30:13 Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Mar 26, 2008, at 8:43 PM, Angela Kahealani wrote:
> > I think it's often easier to gift a fully functional computer into
> > the community, made from FLOSS and e-waste, than it is to convince
> > an existing computer owner to risk their own hardware on that
> > radical FLOSS stuff. Once they see how well it works, they become
> > converted, and more willing to convert more of their computers to
> > FLOSS.
>
> This is opinion, not fact.

OK

> > Nobody is interested in software.
>
> I and others are.

me too.

> > Nobody is interested in hardware.
>
> I and others are.

me too.

> > Everyone wants practical solutions to problems,
>
> 'Everyone'?  No.
>
> Yes, in the view that "computers are tools used to effect solutions",
> most want practical ones.

I was thinking in the context of HOSEF's education mission,
and my wording failed to restrict my commentary to apply only to those
who would be in need of education about FLOSS, and I was exaggerating.
For those of us geeks and nerds, obviously we care about HW and SW,
but then we don't need to be educated to the benefits of FLOSS.

> This is a general spirt, hackers program because programming
> challenges are of intrinsic interest to them.  Problems related to
> programming arouse genuine curiosity in the hacker and make him eager
> to learn more.   The hacker is also enthusiastic about this
> interesting thing; it energizes him.  From MIT in the sixties until
> now, the classic hacker has emerged from sleep in the early afternoon
> to start programming with enthusiasm and has continued his efforts,
> deeply immersed in coding into the wee hours of the morning.

hey, I did go to sleep at 6AM today! :-) Yes, I'm a hacker.

> Moreover, in the center of hacker ethic is information sharing. It is
> held as a duty to share interesting information with like-minded
> people. 

welcome to the GNU generation -- credits due to RMS

> Play also extends beyond the hacker community and touches upon all
> the other "arts of living" that evade the patriarchal work ethic - in
> emotions, parent-child relationships, New Age spirituality, gender
> androgyny, ecological sensibilities, etc.

yes.

> There is also a whole world of non-Christian theologies and
> traditions which place human creativity at their core which I could
> mention, such as Harold Bloom's cry for an American gnosticism in
> "Omens of Millenium".  That's just waiting for Richard Stallman and
> his cultic robes.

but it won't fly until it is renamed with a recursive acronym :-)

> Though I have many disagreements with ESR, I do like this quote from
> "The Art of Unix Programming":
> ---
> "To do the Unix philosophy right, you have to be loyal to excellence.
> You have to believe that software design is a craft worth all the
> intelligence, creativity, and passion you can muster.

of course, in the early days of little memory or disk, this was 
necessary, not just a nice ideal.

> Software design and implementation should be a joyous art, a kind of
> high-level play. If this attitude seems preposterous or vaguely
> embarrassing to you, stop and think; ask yourself what you've
> forgotten. Why do you design software instead of doing something else
> to make money or pass the time? You must have thought software was
> worthy of your passion once....
> To do the Unix philosophy right, you need to have (or recover) that
> attitude.  You need to care. You need to play. You need to be willing
> to explore."

  i.e. good hacks come from hacker mentality and lifestyle.

> Its very difficult to scale a hardware operation without sufficient
> capital.

agreed

> Sharing ideas (including ideas embodied in software) is scalable.
>
> > and how sweet it is if that packaged solution costs $0,
> > and also reduces the size of Hawai'i's landfills.
>
> It doesn't "cost $0", thats a large part of the issue.

the issue being HOSEF's operations in e-cycling

> Another issue is that Scott has made many statements of late about
> "focusing on my [his] charity" in reference to HOSEF.  Its not "his",
> and it can't be for it to remain a 501(c)3.  Most of the issue that
> has caused all this turmoil is that Scott is all too willing to
> behave as though he is all that is HOSEF, and the rest of us are
> merely props for him to move about the board.

well, since the actual power is in the board,
surely this can be remedied?

> Scott, I and many others on this list actually use Mac hardware
> running MacOS.  I booted linux on mine just last night in order to
> image a USB drive to reload my little EEE PC with the most recent
> Xubutu. The combination works really well, I might add.

I'm glad you're happy with your Mac. I shall refrain from listing a long 
litany of abuses by Apple that led me to convert 100% to FLOSS, and to 
avoid the brand entirely. Which reminds me, I'm still trying to give 
away an Apple ADB keyboard and a Farallon Etherwave AAUI to 10BaseT 
adapter.

> Microsoft seems to have stepped on their own d**k with Vista and
> their announcement that all support for XP will be discontinued in
> 2014. What they've given people to "upgrade to" has been universally
> panned as (to use a polite term), "garbage".   With Gates' departure
> in July, Microsoft will be headed by Ballmer (a thuggish bully by all
> accounts) and the combination of Ray Ozzie (chief software architect)
> and Craig Mundie (chief research and strategy officer).   The
> combination are unlikely to function as a team, and Microsoft will
> likely be even further in the mud.

I'm all teary-eyed... with joy! May there be an end to
embrace-extend-monopoly.

> Its not even working in the long term.  HOSEF has lost many of the
> "school labs" it installed.

Lost? how? why?

> > We might say that for the mere investment of a measly $50 per year
> > or so, that businesses can subscribe to both Linux Magazine and
> > Linux Journal, and become educated on Linux use in business. I
> > haven't seen much in either magazine other than one brief mention
> > of K12LTSP, that seriously supported schools and keiki.
>
> you're wrong.

...thank you... forwarding the references on to a Hawaiian Charter 
School.

> http://www.linux-mag.com/id/972
> full text here:
> <http://www.win2lin.biz/pdf/Open%20Schools%20to%20Open%20Source.pdf
>
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6349
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8309
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7148
>
> I could continue, but you're able to use Google yourself.

So, should HOSEF go door-to-door, ignore the no-soliciting signs,
and proseltyze the business owners to adopt FLOSS?

> > What might be useful is to emphasize the FREEdom aspect of it.
> > Steve MacJobs and Bill Monopoly Gates haven't learned how to
> > maintain committed relationships, they always break it off after 3
> > years, whereas FLOSS will actually keep your hardware running until
> > it dies,
>
> As long as you don't use the "--force" flag to rpm, I guess.  :-)

eeuuwwwhhh... RPM? I've been to dependency hell and back already,
I saw the light, and was converted to apt-get^H^H^H^Hitude.

> > Kids and underfunded schools simply have more open minds,
>
> it has yet to be shown that access to computers improves young minds.

after all the stuff you quoted about the wonders and joys of hacking?

> On the other hand, access to music programs, leaning to garden, being
> outdoors, learning to play well with others, etc... does.

(at lest some) Charter Schools are excelling with a wholistic approach.

> > than old farts who are already habituated into things like
> > MicroShaft.
>
> The really old "farts" don't run Windows.  Its a younger generation
> who sucks on the tailpipe of Redmond.

I was actually at that point thinking of old fart corporations,
but even they are beginning to wake up and smell the exhaust fumes.

> >> Helping people make money with oss != evil
> >
> > ...and the history of Red Hat and Fedora
> > which is an excellent example of FLOSS for profit,
>
> Ubuntu is an even more excellent example, as are the many, many
> companies who use linux and BSD as an embedded OS in their hardware.

which might bring us back around to newer cheaper greener PCs...

> > owes a boatload of thanks to Scott Belford, and UH
> > (sorry, I forgot the name of the guy at UH who,
> > together with Scott, launched Fedora Core).
>
> Warren  Togami?

That would be him.

> While Warren and Scott were quite active in launching HOSEF, I'm not
> sure that Scott had all that much to do with launching Fedora Core,

I sit corrected and enlightened, thank you.

> I'm being pedantic here because statements like yours "[Warren]
> together with Scott, launched Fedora Core", get translated to fact.

thank your for straightening out my mess.

> > I would encourage the board to make peace with Scott. Yeah,
> > I know that Pluto opposing Mars makes for a war-like "vibe", but,
> > it's time to put the community ahead of personal issues.
>
> Please see my previous message(s).

Thank you Jim, for making the time to clarify the situation.
You obviously are well informed, and care deeply, and that
tends to indicate you belong on the HOSEF board.

Mahalo, and Aloha, Angela Kahealani

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reserve without prejudice Angela Kahealani.  http://kahealani.com