[LUAU] Top 10 Best / Worst Cities For Software Developer Pay

[Jim Thompson]

On Mar 23, 2007, at 6:09 AM, Maddog wrote:

> I think it's more of a supply and demand proposition. There are not  
> a lot of software development companies here and worker demand is  
> low, therefore employers can pay whatever workers will accept and  
> workers have to accept what is offered or not work.

Why would a bright, motivated college grad go to work for someone else?

What we need are more startups in Hawaii.

http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html

Quoting:  I think you only need two kinds of people to create a  
technology hub: rich people and nerds. They're the limiting reagents  
in the reaction that produces startups, because they're the only ones  
present when startups get started. Everyone else will move.

We have a plethora of rich people here.   What we need are more  
"nerds".   If Hawaii could get off its ass and educate more people  
with programming skills, in a generation we would have a lot more  
startups.

So yes MD, I agree, the solution is "more software companies", but  
I'm not sure that getting existing software companies to "move here"  
is the right move.

Jim

> In some sectors there is a high demand, such as network engineers.  
> There are several network integrators that have had to hire workers  
> from out of state. Higher demand means better wages and employees  
> have the upper hand and can demand more money. The employer has to  
> accept the higher salary demand unless he wants to take his chances  
> and look outside the state to find someone for less (unlikely).
>
> So if Lingle was to "do something" about the situation, it would be  
> to encourage more software development companies to move here,  
> i.e., tax breaks. That would increase demand and competition for  
> better workers and would increase salaries.
>
> MD
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Thompson" <jim at netgate.com>
> To: "LUAU" <luau at lists.hosef.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [LUAU] Top 10 Best / Worst Cities For Software  
> Developer Pay
>
>
>>
>> On Mar 20, 2007, at 7:42 AM, Eric Hattemer wrote:
>>
>>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>>    Where are the "exports" for Hawaii?
>>>>
>>> I think this is the key question.  You can't pay people with  
>>> money  you don't have.  It's not so much about how much are  
>>> "they" paying  as "who is there that can actually pay?"  I think  
>>> the only way to  solve this problem would be to get more  
>>> companies with more cash- earning products to Hawaii.  It's not  
>>> direct, but there's  definitely a small correlation between  
>>> corporate earnings and  employee salaries.  How many giant  
>>> (Microsoft, Adobe, IBM, Apple,  etc.) software/computer companies  
>>> have offices in Hawaii?  The only  one I can think of is IBM.
>>> -Eric Hattemer
>>
>> Sun has one.  I don't know the current status, but they're still  
>> in  the phone book.   It could be an 'e-suite' for a salesperson  
>> and  perhaps an SE.   That said, IBM is unlikely to be doing  
>> development  here, either.
>>
>> The biggest problem with Hawaii is logistics.   While its no more  
>> expensive to FedEx from here than from many locations on the   
>> mainland, its impossible to ship "overnight" from here.  You  
>> could  setup to do most everything over the Internet, but there is  
>> a huge  lack of local infrastructure in terms of co-location,  
>> etc.  Having  "lava.net" host my servers just isn't going to cut it.
>>
>> And then there is the simple fact that we're currently 6 hours out  
>> of 'sync' with the East Coast, and even California is 3 hours  
>> away.   If  you think that doesn't matter, consider the 'window of  
>> opportunity'  to speak with customers, suppliers, fellow  
>> employees, etc on the East  Coast.
>>
>> By the time you're sitting at your desk, with the second cup of   
>> coffee consumed, its 8am (haha!) here, and 2pm on the East  
>> Coast.    They won't want to schedule conf calls past 4pm their  
>> time, so there  is a mere 2 hours of "overlap" per day.   Of  
>> course, if you're  willing to stay up past 2am, then you can catch  
>> them mid-doughnut,  explain the issue du jour, and perhaps have a  
>> solution by their COB.
>>
>> There is also the none-too-subtle suspicion on their part that  
>> you  spend every spare moment on the beach, ogling the gender of  
>> your  choice, or surfing, that you have achieved a state of  
>> "permanent  vacation", and they are none-too-happy that your off- 
>> hours are spent  in in a tiki-lit paradise while they return home  
>> to either sub-urban  blandness or urban blight.
>>
>> After that, you're faced with a workforce that (in the large)  
>> isn't technology savvy, (the Microsoft-touting sheeple are as  
>> thick here as anywhere), and can't even find the motivation to  
>> return to work  reliably. ("Sorry I fo'got to call eh...but chu  
>> know I always got  choke aloha foa ya brah!")
>>
>> All that said, I don't think its impossible to 'do' high-tech  
>> here,  but its very difficult to 'scale' it.
>>
>> Jim
>>
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