[LUAU] Ubuntu... Legalities

[Jim Thompson]

On Jun 7, 2006, at 6:05 AM, Maddog wrote:

> All that is fine but you missed one thing. On the mainland you have  
> competition, this is Hawaii, home of the monopoly and groups that  
> act as a monopoly.

I've only been here 2 years, but I still find this "its different  
here, give up" thing irksome.

> I have been dealing with that for going on 10 years now. I only  
> wish we would come out of our third world attitude and join the  
> rest of the mainland in a truly free economy.

Similar things happen on the mainland.

> As far as the politicians, they "own" everything. Did you see the  
> news this morning? Cal Kawamoto, the traffic cam senator, under  
> investigation by the FBI and IRS. Nothing happens in this town  
> unless you "know" (read $$$) someone.

Kawamoto has been in trouble before.  Rod Haraga is in-trouble too,  
but then, the current national administration is looting the treasury  
and I don't hear many complaining about >that<, either.

> Beer? I'd love too. I can tell you some stories about this place  
> too. I don't know much about the Hotel ownershuip structure but I  
> know plenty about the commercial real estate industry.

I'm 'free' starting Friday for about two weeks (though I've got a  
quick back-n-forth trip to LA in there.)

>
> MD
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Thompson" <jim at netgate.com>
> To: "LUAU" <luau at lists.hosef.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [LUAU] Ubuntu... Legalities
>
>
>>
>> On Jun 6, 2006, at 7:43 PM, Maddog wrote:
>>
>>>> And it will change.   I've been doing hotel WiFi in various   
>>>> guises since 1998.   Wayport had over 1,000 hotels when I  
>>>> left.    It will change in Hawaii slower than elsewhere because  
>>>> there is  no business requirement driving the hotels here.   
>>>> Hawaii is a  resort  destination. People come here to play.   
>>>> That said, even  Disney's  hotels are going free wireless.
>>>
>>> Good point.
>>>
>>> I would love to see it change here I just don't see the hotels   
>>> driving it. They are too bent on making a dollar off of it.
>>
>> Buy me beer sometime, and I'll tell you the tales.  Things like  
>> the  VP of Marketing for Wyndham wanting to invent a way
>> to project ads on the surface of water in your toilet bowl.   (My  
>> response, "You want a heads-down display?" didn't win me any  
>> friends  that day.)  Same guy wanted to charge a percentage of the  
>> contents  protected by the in-room safe.
>>
>>> Maybe that's why we are the priciest resort destination. Anyway,   
>>> change will be slower than you or I ever imagined here IMHO.
>>
>> Actually, I'd bet that the first real downturn will bring a scad  
>> of  "free wifi" from the hotels as they panic, especially in the  
>> lower- end chains. The primary metric for hotel management is  
>> REVPAR,  (REVenue Per Available Room), and the primary inputs to  
>> REVPAR are  occupancy and the rack rate. As soon as a lack of  
>> Internet services  (and most people would rather connect via WiFi)  
>> is perceived by hotel  management as a primary (or even secondary)  
>> cause for a drop in  occupancy or having to discount the rack rate  
>> (in order to fill the  rooms), it will be installed, and it will  
>> be free-to-guest.   I saw  this happen first in the extended stay  
>> space, where the guests would  preferentially book rooms where  
>> they had a T1 connected to in-room  Ethernet, and then would stay  
>> where it was "free to guest" (bundled  into the price of the room).
>>
>> Then Wyndham started giving away IP networking if you were part  
>> of  their affinity program in an effort to attract folks away  
>> from  Marriot and Starwood.  It worked, so Marriot went free-to- 
>> guest in  those segments where they had to compete (Courtyard,  
>> Residence Inn,  Spring Hill Suites, Fairfield Inn and Towne Place  
>> Suites).  Wingate  and other chains followed suit.  Hilton turned  
>> up their "Garden Inn"  chain (as free to guest). Then LaQuinta  
>> (who had been refusing to  even pay attention to offering Internet  
>> access) went and installed in  every hotel (chain-wide) and turned  
>> it all on ... for free.   Why?   Because their hand was forced.
>>
>> Yes, you still pay in the higher-end brands, but most of the  
>> people  who stay in these hotels aren't the kind who live-and-die  
>> by access  to their email/Exchange and back-end (VPN-protected)  
>> applications.
>>
>> And, oh, btw, I managed to keep all of Wayport's airport   
>> installations (some of which cost nearly $500,000 to install) as   
>> 'free' for the longest time.   It was easier to treat it as a   
>> marketing expense than to make the changes to the billing system  
>> to  accommodate how the airport authorities wanted to 'split' the  
>> meager  fees.   And yes, we could see real results in folks who  
>> used the  (free) WiFi at the airport in-turn preferentially  
>> staying at Wayport  hotels.   Then we got the new Neanderthal CEO  
>> who insisted that the  world would not "go free" or "go  
>> 802.11" (despite clear evidence to  the contrary) and the rest is  
>> history.    His "big deal" now is WiFi  in McDonalds, and that  
>> deal has several provisions which allow McDonalds to turn it on  
>> 'for free' when they so desire.
>>
>>> I'd love to see a free model that could make it here, I guess I  
>>> am  just too skeptical or cynical or something like that. Besides  
>>> even  if the hotels come around, you have the politicians to deal  
>>> with!
>>
>> The politicians don't own the hotels, so they have little say.
>>
>> Part of what makes dealing with hotels complex is that you have   
>> several parties to deal with.  You have people who own hotels   
>> (REITs), people who manage hotels (Benchmark, Interstate,  
>> Outrigger,  WestCoast), people who brand hotels (Hilton, Marriott)  
>> and people who  build hotels.   Sometimes one party will fill more  
>> than one role.   You've also got they guys in the back-rooms of  
>> the REITs who are  literally playing "Monopoly" flipping hotels in  
>> and out of the  portfolio.
>>
>> Moreover, it costs money to be able to charge money.   Shall I wax  
>> eloquent about PMS interfaces, credit card charge-backs, and the  
>> size  of the customer support department you need to be able to  
>> deal with  several thousand locations?  Want to know how small  
>> those (and other)  issues get when you >don't charge<?
>>
>> And yes, hotel managers are a capricious bunch.
>>
>> Just to keep the linux content 'up', Wayport used an on-property   
>> (custom debian distro) linux machine (we called it a 'nmd') at  
>> every  location, and still does.   You put 1,000 PeeCees in the  
>> world in  wildly dispersed locations, with every one responsible  
>> for carrying  money back to the mothership and see how you start  
>> to look at the  problem.
>>
>> Then start to deal with 40 or more Windows boxes that you've  
>> *never  seen before* attached to the hotel network every night,  
>> all with  their own unique collection of spyware and viruses, and  
>> some of whom  are piloted by ... well, lets just call them 'bad  
>> actors' who are out  to damage the network, send spam, or download  
>> things that are  prohibited, which result in subpoenas from  
>> various law enforcement  agencies (up to and including the FBI).    
>> (*)
>>
>> It turns out that having the source code, and being able to make   
>> changes to it (fixing bugs, changing behavior, etc), and then   
>> distribute these changes easily (and at no charge) is a "Good   
>> Thing" (tm).
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> (*) Back to the subject, if you don't bill, you don't have to  
>> keep  the information around to justify the billing, and, as a  
>> result, the  FBI (and other LEAs) know to just not bother to ask.
>>
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