[LUAU] Ubuntu... Legalities

Jim Thompson jim at netgate.com
Tue Jun 6 10:46:51 PDT 2006


On Jun 6, 2006, at 5:13 AM, Maddog wrote:

> My point was that most folks will pay for convenience. Most folks  
> will pay for a Linspire or Mandriva edition because it has all the  
> conveniences built in (i.e. an autoplay DVD player, etc.). As far  
> as marketing crap I believe you way oversimplified it. If people  
> will pay for it you now have a business model.

You need enough people to pay enough such that your take-home  
(profit) provides enough incentive to you.   This can be one person  
paying you $1,000,000 or 1000 people paying you $1,200 each, or  
1,000,000 people paying you $2 each.   (There are transaction costs,  
which I've tried to show.)

> You nailed it with your statement about valuing freedion over  
> market share. The only folks in that boat are the folks with the  
> technical know how, time and drive to make a FOSS product work  
> (highly intelligent guys like yoursself). Can you put together a  
> Debian or Ubuntu, et al system for free? Yes. Will the majority of  
> folks in the world take the time to do it and troubleshoot it when  
> it breaks? No. Not because their time is not free but because they  
> can pay Mandriva $129 and get a working system out of the box and  
> when it breaks they can contact somone to fix it.  That is worth  
> $129 and that is why Mandriva is succeeding.

People buy luxury cars, too.  But the majority don't, they drive  
Toyotas.   There is money to be made all over the scale from 'it  
didn't cost' to 'you can buy better, but you can't pay more'.

> As far as Wi-Fi being free. Who are you kidding? There is no such  
> thing as a free lunch. Here in Hawaii the old boys all want a cut.
it was this way on the mainland too (years ago).
> It will never be free here.
Never is a long time.

> I ran into a guy the other day who is proposing totally free Wi-Fi.  
> Heh, it's supported by driving folks to his website to buy products  
> and services (and the hotels are resisting because if someone buys  
> something from the website while on hotel property, they want a  
> cut) and if it doesn't work (i.e. make his site more profitable)?  
> It'll shut down. There is going to have to be some kind of business  
> model to support  free hotspots.

For most situations, your customers will demand it, and the marginal  
cost of adding it is so low that you'll do it.

Paid WiFi is like a pay toilet.  You may get some people to pay, but  
you'll piss-off most of us.

> Bandwidth and equipment cost money and I don't see any companies  
> lining up to donate either.

Bandwidth... what do you know about bandwidth charges?

> MD
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Thompson" <jim at netgate.com>
> To: "LUAU" <luau at lists.hosef.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 10:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [LUAU] Ubuntu... Legalities
>
>
>>
>> On Jun 5, 2006, at 8:12 PM, Maddog wrote:
>>
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> One point I think most of the FOSS community misses is that it's   
>>> great if you have the technical knowhow to find, install and   
>>> troubleshoot these free softwares. The majority of users in the   
>>> world either don't have the time, or don't have the expertise to  
>>> do  that or simply would rather point and click. Probably why  
>>> Linspire  has half a chance to get a foothold in replacing  
>>> Windows XP
>>
>> From what I can tell, (k)unbuntu is as easy to drive as linspire,   
>> and costs less.
>>
>>> If you had a choice to buy gas for $3.35/gallon right down the   
>>> street on King Street or drive to Millilani (if you live in  
>>> town)  and pay $3.09/gallon, where would you most like fuel up? A  
>>> large  majority would go to the more expensive station out of  
>>> convenience.
>>
>> I think you'll find they're "better off" paying the $3.35/gallon  
>> at  the local station.
>>
>> Lets say you've got a car with a big tank, perhaps 20 gallons,  
>> and  you manage to arrive in Millilani with 1/4 tank or less, so  
>> you can  manage to squeeze 16 gallons in on your fill-up.   You've  
>> "saved" 16  x ($3.35 - $3.09), or $4.16 on your fill-up, and you  
>> had to drive to  Millilani and back.
>>
>> Google says its 17.9 miles from Lionel's 76 at 1505 S King St,   
>> Honolulu, HI 96826
>> to the Chevron a t95-130 Kamehameha Hwy, Mililani Town, HI 96789
>>
>>  If you burn just 1 gallon of gas, (your car averages 36 mpg,  
>> which  I find unlikely) you've only saved $1.07, and you have yet  
>> to  consider what your time is worth.  (Google says its 30 minutes  
>> each  way.)   I find it more likely that your car gets around  
>> 22mpg, so it  cost you $5.05 in gas to drive to Millilani and  
>> back.   Even if you  manage to arrive running on fumes (with an  
>> empty tank) you've spent  $5.05 to "save" $5.20.
>>
>> This doesn't even make sense if you're driving something that  
>> holds a  lot of gas, because most of these vehicles guzzle gas.
>>
>> GM rates Hummer H2 at 10-13 mpg.  The Ford Expedition gets 14-19  
>> mpg,  and the three-quarter ton Chevy Suburban gets 13-17 mpg.
>>
>> The standard H2 holds 32 gallons, the Expedition holds 28 gallons  
>> and  the 3/4 Ton Suburban holds 26 gallons.   We'll assume that  
>> you can  manage to arrive in Millilani running on fumes  
>> (impossible with these  fuel injected engines, and same will  
>> shorten the life of the fuel  pump, but I digress, and give you  
>> the benefit of doubt.)
>>
>> Suburban: 26 * $0.26 = $6.76 fuel savings, cost to drive to/from  
>> Mililani: $6.51
>> Expedition: 28 * $0.26 = $7.28 fuel savings, cost to drive to/from  
>> Mililani: $5.82
>> H2 32 * $0.26 = $8.32 fuel savings, cost to drive to/from  
>> Mililani:  $8.51
>>
>> at the other end of the scale:
>>
>> Prius 51mpg (highway) and holds 11.9 gallons.   $3.09 fuel  
>> savings,  cost to drive to/from Mililani: $2.17
>>
>> Keep running the numbers, it starts to make sense to drive to   
>> Millilani if your car holds about 100 gallons of fuel.
>>
>>> There are societal issues that prevent FOSS from becoming  
>>> dominant. Maybe if Linux distributions concentrated on that they  
>>> would be  able to infiltrate the market to a higher degree.
>>
>> Conquering the market (especially while sweeping freedom under  
>> the  rug) is the stance taken by many "open source" advocates.    
>> Others  (including Free Software advocates) value freedom over  
>> 'market share'.
>>
>>> I think the new wireless models have taken notice, free with  
>>> lots  of ads or pay a bit for no ads. We'll see if it works but  
>>> as I  recall an ISP tried that without success.
>>
>> unlicensed wireless will only succeed when its free ($0 cost).    
>> I  say this as the former CTO of Wayport (a for-pay "hotspot"  
>> ISP), with  a lot of wireless experience ever since.   Point in  
>> fact, we sell  gear to a lo of folks who are trying to install for- 
>> pay wireless.
>>
>> I think any forced ads will be quickly defeated.
>>
>>> Maybe a combo FOSS and for pay model works? Mandriva seems to  
>>> live  by it and judging by the bottom line they have had some  
>>> success.
>>
>> There is value in support, and there is money in customization,   
>> because nobody's time is "free" (at least, not all the time).
>>
>> As for the "Windows vs. Linux: The Great Battle" stance, it is  
>> very  much a Marketing Myth. The only people who believe this myth  
>> are  people who are susceptible to believing marketing crap.    
>> I've found  that companies trust suppliers who respect their  
>> choices.   That cuts  both ways.
>>
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