[LUAU] s/hosef.ics.hawaii.edu/mirrors.hosef.org/g

[R. Scott Belford]

Jimen Ching wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006, Nakashima wrote:
>> Over the years, I've witnessed exceptional acts of generosity, 
>> cooperation and community within HOSEF and LUAU. However, the level of 
>> bickering has surprised me.
> 
> Are you sure you're living in Hawaii?  Level of bickering is surprising? 
> Are you not monitoring the Rail Transit debate?  Are you not monitoring 
> the Hawaii K-12 education debate?  If you have a group of people that 
> has more than 5 people, you'll have bickering.  Is this a surprise for 
> you? Where are you from?

The person you are referring to is a lifelong resident of this beautiful 
island, and I think it is reasonable to be surprised that a mailing list 
about FOSS could become so childishly petty.  This is quite different 
than transit, education, or other issues that are neither free, 
voluntary, nor inherently cooperative.

> 
>> Being an educator, not a geek (in the positive sense), my rose-colored 
>> expectations lead me to believe there would be a greater sense of 
>> community. I hope HOSEF and LUAU can evolve into a strong, positive 
>> force for change.
> 
> I don't know what's going on.  I've been reading this list continuously, 
> but somehow, this issue came about and I missed the beginning or 
> something.  What exactly is the issue?
> 
> Jim, just to clarify; HOSEF is not LUAU and LUAU is not HOSEF.  LUAU 
> predated HOSEF.  If you want to know HOSEF, just visit its website.  As 
> for LUAU, this is it.  If you're reading this email, you're part of LUAU.

How is it that this list is managed and sustained?  The charitable 
entity called HOSEF was created and named on this mailing list. 
Everyone was invited and encouraged to participate.  After its creation 
HOSEF adopted LUAU, with the blessing of its former manager, and aside 
from the occasional bruised ego it has been a very good relationship.

The people who feel strongest about the independence of LUAU have done 
nothing to preserve it.  No one stepped up to provide hardware or 
support for this list when it was asked for many, many years ago.  Until 
a few hard drives were funded one day at McKinley, the entire dual 
athlon 4U server currently at UH was from my pocket.  Instead of 
gratitude or appreciation there has been resentment.

Thanks to a whole host of folks, namely Ed Orcutt, LUAU was born. 
Thanks to Warren Togami, LUAU was revived.  Thanks to Brian Chee's 
willingness to host us and Vince Hoang's willingness to administrate us, 
LUAU exists.  A history of sorts is here

http://www.hosef.org/wiki/LUAU_history

> 
> LUAU doesn't have a leader, there's no phone number, there's no monthly 
> meetings.  There's no treasury.  LUAU, at the end of the day, is just a 
> file with a list of email addresses on someone's computer.  Apparently, 
> at the moment, it's lists.hosef.org.  Note; this doesn't mean HOSEF 
> _owns_ this list.  The list used to be hosted on an ICS computer, that 
> doesn't mean ICS owned the list.  If you want to learn some history 
> about LUAU, do a search in the archives.

Correct.  HOSEF does not "own" LUAU.  HOSEF is the entity that has 
managed and sustained LUAU.  Jim is correct that HOSEF=LUAU, and you are 
correct that LUAU is not owned by HOSEF.  LUAU does not magically exist, 
though, and there is real work and sacrifice behind this thing so many 
take for granted.

> 
> If the owner of lists.hosef.org one day says: "I'm tired of this 
> free/open source software non-sense, I just want to surf the waves for 
> the rest of my life."  That's fine.  This happened before, but LUAU 
> survived.  It'll survive this one as well, if it happens.  I'll 
> volunteer to host it myself if need be.

Interesting.  Your volunteer time to help Julian and Vince administrate 
LUAU is always welcome.  Your time to install the soon-to-be donated 
hard drives would be appreciated.  No individual has the ability to dump 
LUAU.

> 
> Having said all this; HOSEF members have every right to post on LUAU, as 
> long as it is related to free and open source software.  I haven't seen 
> anything yet that HOSEF members have posted that isn't related to free 
> and open source software.  Thus, I have no reason to complain.
> 
> So, what is the problem?  Who's bickering?  What are they bickering about?
> Misunderstandings happen.  We clarify ourselves and we move on.  What, 
> we haven't seen heated debates on LUAU before?  When people are 
> passionate about something, heated debates will occur.  This is free and 
> open source software.  It's all about the passion.  No one is getting 
> paid for this, so what else is there if not passion?

What else is there if not passion?  How about civility and respect.

> 
> --jc

--scott

-- 
R. Scott Belford
Founder/Executive Director
The Hawai`i Open Source Education Foundation
PO Box 2644
Ewa Beach, HI 96706
808.689.6518 phone/fax
scott at hosef.org