[LUAU] Intro

[Jim Thompson]

On Aug 11, 2004, at 12:35 AM, MonMotha wrote:

> Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Aug 10, 2004, at 10:37 PM, MonMotha wrote:
>>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>
>>>> the non-MMU parts that made uClinux special are now part of the 2.6 
>>>> kernel tree.
>>>
>>> Yes they are, though I haven't had a need to play with it yet as I 
>>> do mostly ARM and embedded x86 work (well, and work on things that 
>>> will NEVER run Linux)
>> never say never.   :-)
>
> OK, port Linux to an 8051 with 256 BYTES of RAM and (at most) 64k of 
> ROM.  :-)

Ya know, with folks like Cygnal (sorry Silicon Labs) in the business, 
and Siemens/Infineon with its 32bit ALU in
an 8051 clone, how long will it be before we see an 8051 clone that 
actually could boot linux?

And in any case, its straight-forward to interface a IDE drive to an 
8051.

But, point taken.  Still, never say 'never'.

> Yeah, all those older images that include SSH support (I don't know if 
> any actually do, though I made some that did) all used OpenSSH and 
> therefore had to include OpenSSL.  Cost you a LOT of space...

Sure, but not all of openssl is needed for openssh.   major shrinkage 
is possible.

>>> All those are very old, but demonstrate what kind of space you can 
>>> actually cram Linux into if you work at it.
>> similar dates even.  Hmm!
>>>  I've seen Linux fit in under 1MB before.  You can have an entire 
>>> userspace in under 500k if you really want to (busybox/uClibc and 
>>> some shell scripts, statically link busybox to uClibc), though it 
>>> won't do much other than boot.
>> We sell linux-based 802.11 devices that fit everything (web server, 
>> ssh and all) in under 2MB.
>
> I have a similar image I've been working on.  Do you know of an SSL 
> capable webserver that doesn't need OpenSSL?  Apache/mod_ssl is just 
> overkill for a web frontend!

Thats pure open source?  No.   Monthra markets a tiny TLS libary that 
plugs into goahead.

>> 4MB allows me to add things like snmp, captive portals and ad-hoc 
>> routing (olsr).
>
> Yup :)

right, so when do we start to unwire Oahu?  (is there *any* community 
wireless on the island?)

>> 8MB of flash is pure luxury.
>
> We're currently using Compact Flash cards in ATA adapters, rather than 
> real flash, so space isn't much of an issue (do they even SELL 8MB 
> flash cards anymore?).

Yes, but these are more expensive than 64MB CF cards.   Supply and 
demand, just as you'll find that 72-pin SIMMs are quite pricey these 
days.

> One of my "embedded" systems was actually a Dell PC with a CF<->IDE 
> adapter in it! (Heck, it even had a hard drive for logging, but I went 
> to great lengths to make sure the system would keep running even if 
> the hard drive completely failed; it would even boot up with a bad 
> HDD!)
>
>> And then I have this 7 Ethernet, 2 miniPCI ixp425 board with 16MB of 
>> flash/64MB of ram here.   No idea what I'm gonna do with it yet.   
>> :-)
>
> Well, I've got 3 webpals sitting around (1MB flash, up to 16MB of RAM, 
> or 64 if you're willing to do a hardware mod), and a General 
> Instruments/Motorola DCT-5000 MIPS based set-top box (that is MINE 
> thank you, not the cable company's) that I need to find something to 
> do with.  The DCT-5000 has a LOT of stuff in it (much of which nobody 
> will ever be able to get specs on, at least not before it snows in 
> hell due to the heat death of the universe occuring).

Didn't this run some Lineo-supplied distribution?

> My x86 development has mostly been on dual ethernet AMD Elan systems 
> with (up to) 64MB (yes, 64MB) of RAM, a CF slot, and a PC/104 bus 
> (that I need to make a daughterboard up for).  Mostly acting as 
> routers (which 64MB lets you do some very cool stateful filtering 
> stuff), but also just in some other weird applications.

Elan, ugh.  The reason I like the recent VIA embedded parts is their 
AES/RNG core.   Can you spell IPSEC?  :-)

jim