[luau] CMS systems and Web Based Forums

[LinuxDan]

           Warren
                       I agree entirely with that statement.  I am using
PHP/MySQL and I haven't had any security issues partially to do with the IBM
wireless security software
            configured by non other than Redhat. My wireless DLINK router
does it all giving me the bandwidth I need from 22mps to 56 on a 802.11a
dual mode configuration.
            At a cost of $149.00 for the router and $59 for the PCM card,
you cant go wrong.  The router has a five port switch for my wired backbone
in which I have over
200mps consistent.  I have two P3s, P3 Sony Laptop (which is what I am using
now) and P4 253 with a gig of DDR 333 and 600 GB with built on Raid
which will be a LTSP and .NET server.  I 	have a QCOM fiber mode network
card and cable converter which should give me over 500mps for server side. I
haven't setup Apache yet.  I just received support from Redhat and Microsoft
who sent me the full version of .NET server without any strings attached and
a lifetime client licensing.  I have a meeting with the DOE and the network
coordinator of the public school system.  I will be setting up a demo with
some donated equipment I received.  I have some people coming over my place
tonight from the city accounting department.  Lingle mentioned through Brian
Durham during the campaign that they would be looking to upgrade the state
wide database infrastructure and that is taking place now and will start
with the accounting department.

          I am just getting back up on my feet, since I was hit by a car in
December crossing the street, and plan on getting non-profit status for the
projects I am working on.  I created a tech manual with DVD video showing
over 200 hours of computer repairs, configurations and exam preparation.
CompUSA corporate director has showed an interest in this and also will
support Opensource projects here in Hawaii.  I have worked on a lot of
things while being laid up. I have had major support from my sons and
daughters schools and interest is spreading.  I am also setting up a network
over at a retirement villa and it may give me access and contacts to the
other retirement facilities around the island.  This is a major retirement
location.

Dan

From: luau-admin at videl.ics.hawaii.edu
[mailto:luau-admin at videl.ics.hawaii.edu]On Behalf Of Warren Togami
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 11:05 PM
To: luau at videl.ics.hawaii.edu
Subject: [luau] CMS systems and Web Based Forums

Vince Hoang wrote:
>
> http://drupal.org
> http://postnuke.com/
> http://www.xoops.org/modules/news/
> http://www.phpbb.com/ (see http://ruslug.rutgers.edu/)
> http://slashcode.com/
> http://plone.org/
>
> All the CMSes discussed via E-mail or IRC seem to be
> PHP/MySQL-based. I threw the last two, based on perl and python,
> respectively, for good measure.
>
> I am in favor of a PHP-based solution mostly because videl is
> already running PHP on Apache. One concern to keep in mind is
> that PHPNuke has been littered with security holes. The original
> author is a pretty good designer, but he had no concept of
> security. (PHPNuke begat Postnuke which begat Xoops.)
>

I am in favor of PHP/MySQL based solutions, but yes I am concerned about
security.  I would definitely run any CMS system in its own virtual
server with its own instance of Apache and MySQL.  That would be
difficult on videl currently though, because we are maxed out at 512MB RAM.

> With a CMS, would we want to allow forums? I fear that would take
> away from the mailing lists.
>

There are two sides to this problem of mailing lists vs forums.  First
the benefits of forums when compared to mailing lists.

* Threads naturally stay together.
* No need to trim quotes, it happens naturally.  No need to be annoyed
when people persistently violate this rule of netiquette.
* Much easier to avoid threads that you care nothing about.
* Much easier to separate posts into categories, for example:
** General Chat Forum
** Programming Chat Forum
** Linux for Schools Forum
** HOSEF Staff Forum (private)
** Commercial Solicitation Forum
* Easier to securely delegate responsibilities to various admins and
moderators for specific forums.  (Less work for me.)

Back when I took over LUAU in a hostile coup d'état (year 2000?) the
Hawaii Open Source community was much smaller and less active.  Back
then I wanted to move the community to a web forum rather than mailing
list, but I realized it wouldn't work at that time.  This brings me to
largest drawback of forums.

Push vs Pull media
Mailing lists are "push" media, like TV or radio.  This means that if
you choose to see it (subscribe), it is always delivered to your mailbox.
Web forums are "pull" media like most web sites.  While they may have
the many benefits listed above, like any other web site you have to
actually REMEMBER to visit the site.

"Pull" media works well when you have larger communities.  Look at this
site that I help to maintain for an example: http://www.amdforums.com.
Traffic is consistent so there is almost always new and interesting
conversation every day.  Traffic can grow very large, but that's okay
because people are naturally posting into different forums of differing
interest groups.

Back in 2000 we were smaller and less active, however today I think we
may be ready for a web forum.

Another benefit since back then was web boards have evolved more toward
a "Push and Pull" model.  In modern good web boards you can subscribe to
forums and be mailed daily updates about the current threads.  You can
also receive notices when someone has replied to a thread that you had
posted to previously.  All of this of course is configurable within your
own account, giving you full control.

I assert that due to the benefits mentioned earlier in this message,
that our community would ultimately benefit from an eventual conversion
to a web board.  Now I realize that many old schoolers absolutely hate
web boards, but I believe that is mainly because they haven't actively
used good web boards like vBulletin, OpenTopic or phpBB.

Unfortunately, if such a thing were to happen, it would need to be a
complete conversion because you cannot expect people to visit both a
mailing list and web forum.  The community would suffer if we try to
maintain both.  This means that the discussion mailing list would
ultimately need to be discontinued.

That itself would not be too bad, because important things can still be
announced through an "luau-announce" mailing list.  Those periodic
announcements would probably have links to specific threads within the
web board.

http://ruslug.rutgers.edu
One really nice example of a fully Open Source CMS + Web Board solution
is here.  They have nicely integrated news and content with standard
phpBB web forums.  I really like this setup and phpBB as a web board,
but we can discuss alternative CMS + web board systems.

I propose that along with the launch of the new HOSEF/MPLUG website, we
as a community TEST a web board.  Not everyone would prefer it, but I
believe it would ultimately be better for us as a community.  I ask that
people have an open mind and give it a good try.

Comments?  Flames? =)

Warren Togami
warren at togami.com

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