[luau] CMS systems and Web Based Forums

[Warren Togami]

Vince Hoang wrote:
> 
> http://drupal.org
> http://postnuke.com/
> http://www.xoops.org/modules/news/
> http://www.phpbb.com/ (see http://ruslug.rutgers.edu/)
> http://slashcode.com/
> http://plone.org/
> 
> All the CMSes discussed via E-mail or IRC seem to be
> PHP/MySQL-based. I threw the last two, based on perl and python,
> respectively, for good measure.
> 
> I am in favor of a PHP-based solution mostly because videl is
> already running PHP on Apache. One concern to keep in mind is
> that PHPNuke has been littered with security holes. The original
> author is a pretty good designer, but he had no concept of
> security. (PHPNuke begat Postnuke which begat Xoops.)
> 

I am in favor of PHP/MySQL based solutions, but yes I am concerned about 
security.  I would definitely run any CMS system in its own virtual 
server with its own instance of Apache and MySQL.  That would be 
difficult on videl currently though, because we are maxed out at 512MB RAM.

> With a CMS, would we want to allow forums? I fear that would take
> away from the mailing lists.
> 

There are two sides to this problem of mailing lists vs forums.  First 
the benefits of forums when compared to mailing lists.

* Threads naturally stay together.
* No need to trim quotes, it happens naturally.  No need to be annoyed 
when people persistently violate this rule of netiquette.
* Much easier to avoid threads that you care nothing about.
* Much easier to separate posts into categories, for example:
** General Chat Forum
** Programming Chat Forum
** Linux for Schools Forum
** HOSEF Staff Forum (private)
** Commercial Solicitation Forum
* Easier to securely delegate responsibilities to various admins and 
moderators for specific forums.  (Less work for me.)

Back when I took over LUAU in a hostile coup d'état (year 2000?) the 
Hawaii Open Source community was much smaller and less active.  Back 
then I wanted to move the community to a web forum rather than mailing 
list, but I realized it wouldn't work at that time.  This brings me to 
largest drawback of forums.

Push vs Pull media
Mailing lists are "push" media, like TV or radio.  This means that if 
you choose to see it (subscribe), it is always delivered to your mailbox.
Web forums are "pull" media like most web sites.  While they may have 
the many benefits listed above, like any other web site you have to 
actually REMEMBER to visit the site.

"Pull" media works well when you have larger communities.  Look at this 
site that I help to maintain for an example: http://www.amdforums.com.
Traffic is consistent so there is almost always new and interesting 
conversation every day.  Traffic can grow very large, but that's okay 
because people are naturally posting into different forums of differing 
interest groups.

Back in 2000 we were smaller and less active, however today I think we 
may be ready for a web forum.

Another benefit since back then was web boards have evolved more toward 
a "Push and Pull" model.  In modern good web boards you can subscribe to 
forums and be mailed daily updates about the current threads.  You can 
also receive notices when someone has replied to a thread that you had 
posted to previously.  All of this of course is configurable within your 
own account, giving you full control.

I assert that due to the benefits mentioned earlier in this message, 
that our community would ultimately benefit from an eventual conversion 
to a web board.  Now I realize that many old schoolers absolutely hate 
web boards, but I believe that is mainly because they haven't actively 
used good web boards like vBulletin, OpenTopic or phpBB.

Unfortunately, if such a thing were to happen, it would need to be a 
complete conversion because you cannot expect people to visit both a 
mailing list and web forum.  The community would suffer if we try to 
maintain both.  This means that the discussion mailing list would 
ultimately need to be discontinued.

That itself would not be too bad, because important things can still be 
announced through an "luau-announce" mailing list.  Those periodic 
announcements would probably have links to specific threads within the 
web board.

http://ruslug.rutgers.edu
One really nice example of a fully Open Source CMS + Web Board solution 
is here.  They have nicely integrated news and content with standard 
phpBB web forums.  I really like this setup and phpBB as a web board, 
but we can discuss alternative CMS + web board systems.

I propose that along with the launch of the new HOSEF/MPLUG website, we 
as a community TEST a web board.  Not everyone would prefer it, but I 
believe it would ultimately be better for us as a community.  I ask that 
people have an open mind and give it a good try.

Comments?  Flames? =)

Warren Togami
warren at togami.com