[luau] List Policy

Joe Linux joelinux at earthlink.net
Sun Oct 20 05:48:00 PDT 2002


I actually haven't stated that the LUAU operation is lousy.  What I have 
said is that the CLUE group doesn't suffer from these petty 
disagreements over how and what to post.  Basically there is free and 
open discussion, a monthly meeting which almost always has a different 
person doing the presenting.  I gave a presentation there myself on my 
modifications to the ICE Windowing manager to make it extremely user 
friendly.  Everyone's' presentation usually includes some sort of side 
show presentation, and supporting printed documentation which is handed 
out to the group.  The sessions are divided into two parts.  A KISS 
session for people with less experience with Linux, and then a more 
heavy duty main presentation of more advanced topics.  The main 
presentation is usually by professional IT managers or professional 
programmers.  They have had presentations by people working at Silicon 
Graphics, Sun Microsystems, the CEO of Colorado Tape Backup drives, 
Techangle ISP, Standard & Poors IT manager and so forth.  My 
presentation was  for the KISS session.  Each meeting has extensive door 
prizes.  When your number is called, you get to choose from a table full 
of books and boxed distributions and other novelty items related to 
Linux or open source.  They had an auction and I won the high bid on a 
bundle of Adobe PhotoShop 5.0, 5.5 and Adobe Pagemaker 6.5 all in the 
original boxes for $13.00.   The president is a very likable amiable guy 
who is easy to talk too. Honestly, I have never been insulted by the 
president, or anyone else there.  They certainly don't devote time to 
"list policy" or "netiquette".  Everyone just does their thing in a very 
professional manner, and they share their knowledge with one another. 
 There isn't just one star.  Everyone is made to feel like a 
contributing member.  I think the MidPac group is a good group and the 
CompUSA presentation was a very good thing.  I know that LinuxDan worked 
very hard on it.  Scott Belford has great ideas and experience.  Some of 
the MidPac group members are every bit if not more knowledgeable then 
the people in Denver.  I find it a shame that immediately after the 
CompUSA demo day, all this strife had to break out.  I actually haven't 
been critical of the group as a whole, but have certainly suffered 
abusive, degrading treatment from the leader, and I don't think that's a 
good thing, particularly when I see the same thing happening to others 
who are just new to the list or who are seeking help and are willing to 
pay for it.  I may be in the middle of the discussion, but I certainly 
didn't start the problem.  My initial biggest offense apparently was 
forgetting on occasion to trim a post.  It went downhill from there. 
 Ironically my wife and I have been  financial contributors to the 
group, and find it very unethical and unprofessional to be continually 
insulted by the leader.  Something's not right.    Leadership is more 
than just technical knowledge.  A leader has to be a people person , and 
good politician.  Leadership isn't insulting people for their opinion 
when they have solicited opinions in the first place.  I find it 
extremely offensive to be labeled a "troll" whatever that is in techno 
jargon.  I like the members of the Luau group, and see it as an 
organization which has great potential to promote "open source" in 
Hawaii.  But for this to happen, the leadership will have to stop 
directly insulting others, particularly those who have directly 
contributed financially to the cause.  I'm not asking for special 
favors, but I certainly didn't expect abusive treatment when I made my 
donation.  

Elayne Man wrote:

>Okay, let's stop (indirectly) pointing fingers here... it may have been
>better to personally contact Ed about his e-mails, but nobody's perfect. 
>If you have a problem with someone, try to take it out on them
>personally;  the whole list doesn't need to know.  (Maybe something of
>this extent can be added to the policy that Scott is writing?)
>
>George, you often talk about how lousy the LUAU operation is, and stated
>a couple of times about your "CLUE" group in Denver.  So why don't you
>become a part of the solution by telling us how CLUE runs their group? 
>Let's learn by example & experience.  I remember Warren mentioning that
>the Silicon Valley Linux Users Group had an interesting list policy worth
>looking at:  http://www.svlug.org/policies/list-policy.shtml
>
>"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad
>judgement." - quite true
>
>
>elayne
>





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