[luau] MSWindows

MonMotha monmotha at indy.rr.com
Sun Jul 28 16:04:01 PDT 2002


Eric Hattemer wrote:
>>Get a better packaging system, one that can fulfill dependencies for you
>>automatically.  Windows programs have library dependencies too (of
>>course), but they generally include them all on the CD.  Linux programs
>>try to avoid redundant downloading, so they don't do that.  Debian's
>>apt-get program will take the package you ask for, and automagically
>>download and install it and all it's dependencies.  Gentoo's BSD ports
>>system does the same but it also compiles it from source.  Honesly I
>>don't know how RPM became the standard for Linux packages.  It was a
>>great first step, but there have been vast improvements upon it.
>>
>>Lately, many RPM based distributions have taken to a debian like
>>approach.  I believe Mandrake has urpmi and you can actually make
>>apt-get work with RPM on redhat systems.  This should eliminate the
>>"dependency hell" commonly complained about by RPM users.
> 
> Perhaps this really is the right solution.  But once again, instead of
> pusing the responsibility toward the user ("use a different distribution"),
> RedHat should work on their packaging system, moving to a ports or apt-get
> type of program.  Furthermore, their GUI packaging programs kind of suck.
> gnorpm hasn't changed since 6.0, and still contains messages like "not all
> functionality is here, but someday, we'll fix it", and kpackage (which I
> really liked, but Warren had some kind of problem with), mysteriously
> disappeared in the newest versions of redhat.  But really, since Redhat has
> become the standard that everyone knows how to use and support, etc., its a
> shame that their packaging tools are so bad.

Unfortunately, it seems that RedHat has turned into a company that seems 
split on where to go.  One one hand they have the opensource volunteer 
developers that gave them something very impressive to start with and 
are still helping them along.  On the other hand they have the class 
coporate "the only people we care about are our shareholders and 
lawyers".  Believe me, many people in the Linux community (myself 
included) are beginning to doubt redhat.  They are poised to become the 
microsoft of the Linux world.  Let's hope they do the right thing.


There's not much we as "the community" can do to force redhat to change. 
  The best the community can do is petition them to change, the same 
thing we have to do with any company.  What we as the community CAN do 
is direct people at something that will solve their problems.

> 
> 
>>Actually, people are working on this.  KDE and GNOME are a far cry from
>>what my X11 desktop looked like on Slackware 3.6 (aka Slackware98).
>>There are GUIs (both X and console based) for things such as software
>>installation, but with a good package manager, the GUI isn't needed.
>>Why click next 10 times when you can just type "apt-get install foo"?
>>Configuration is also progressing rapidly.  There have got to be tens,
>>possibly hundreds of tools for helping you configure your system.  If
>>anything, the problem is there's too many of them!
> 
> 
> I have no problem with multiple desktops, etc.  I just wish KDE didn't crash
> so often.  Now while some people would like to type in commands, and I'm
> sure it is faster, but it is a lot to expect from beginning users.  Its one
> of those things that can make your life easier if you learn it, but
> shouldn't be a requirement.  Something similar to kpackage would be great.
> 

Unfortunately things crash.  It's a fact of life.  I don't think you're 
going to try telling me Windows never crashes.  Windows has gotten a LOT 
better recently.  Remember, windows has had over 15 years to get to this 
point WITH CORPORATE SPONSERSHIP.  Linux has only existed (and 
originally as a "hack your drivers together yourself" project) for a 
mere 10 years.  Only during the past few has it really started to take 
off.  Imagine where Linux will be 10-15 years from now!

On the subject of crashing and Linux improving, most projects are very 
happy to accept bug reports!  Go to their homepage and see if they have 
a bug report page, and YOU can help make Linux better.

> -Eric Hattemer
> 

--MonMotha




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