GUI Good! CLI Good! *nix Good! I think the main problem with the so called gurus (like me), is that we have been using the CLi for so long or we have stopped using the GUI for alot of things when we realized how easy it was, that when we sit down with a newbie we try to explain what we know is the easiest and not what is the simplest! Easy != Simple! Most things can be done very easily at the command line, but that does not make them simple to do, because you have to know the commands. The GUI makes things simpler, click on the button of the burning CD, click on the add files button, click on the burn CD button. Simple right! Well at ITEC on Wednesday Warren, Deven, and Myself all said we use cdredord (the CLI cd burner), because it is easier than the GUI! But yes, we do need to be able to show new users how to use the GUI and make their life simpler! Eventually they will how to do things easier. Damn, that means I have to start installing X on my systems so I can learn how to use it :) Dusty > You know I couldn't agree more, its more than a little intimidiating at > first to newbies, those guis can be a life saver at first, and you DO > learn your way a command line after a while. Here is a common thing you > see on #linuxhelp or any newbie book, for that matter 'bring up > /etc/whateverconfig under emacs or vi. Odds are this poor kid is trying > to change one word in a config file, or maybe just look at it. Even if > you are without X, why not at least tell them about mcedit which is on > most systems? > > Here is the biggest reason for GUIs and easy stuff though: > Its not the guy who can't learn it > Its not the guy who never used command lines > Its not the guy who never used Unix at all > Its my dad: Programmed on punch cards, made a living on freelance > software design for a while, hates windows, yet I can't suggest linux or > BSD for him, why? > He works 10 hours a day and spends the rest of the time with my younger > brothers scout troop or softball leagues. > He would love Linux or BSD, but doesn't have 6 hours to figure out how > to get a soundcard running in Linux 10 minutes after his first install. > > Anyway, among some there is an assumption that GUIs and the like are for > people who are too lazy or stupid to learn, but I've got a stack of > punchcards and a handbuilt, dad-designed computer on in a steel case > with circuit boards I watched being made from the mid 70s to prove them wrong, > and I think we should do more as a community to 'share the wealth'. > Regards, > Brian > > > > > > Yes, the success of linux depends on the ability of those who "know" to be > > able to explain its ways to those who do not. Knowing the gui helps because > > the "newbies" are the masses of people entirely too busy to impress > > themselves or a select few with command line jockeying. We all know that > > this is an essential skill set for sysadmins, but the masses we would all > > like to see adopt linux have no interest in this. It' why they use windows > > instead of dos. Too often those in the linux community try to impress > > others or mask insecurities by showing how much they know. What a way to > > intimidate new users. Real knowledge exists when you can impart it to the > > less informed. This is the challenge. > > > > scott > > > > success without humility is just an indulgence in arrogance. > > > > > > > From: Warren Togami > > > Reply-To: "Linux & Unix Advocates & Users" > > > Date: 06 Dec 2001 23:26:47 -1000 > > > To: "Linux & Unix Advocates & Users" > > > Subject: [luau] Newsforge: Making Linux look harder than it is > > > > > > http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/12/05/1259245&mode=thread > > > > > > "Many "gurus" teaching new users about Linux make it look harder than it > > > needs to be, and apparently fail to explain that yes, you can make > > > PowerPoint-style presentations in Linux, you can view Web Pages that use > > > Flash animation and other "glitz" features, and that you can manage all > > > your files though simple "point, click, drag and drop" visual > > > interfaces. Could the biggest problem with Linux usability be that most > > > of the people teaching newbies to use Linux are too smart and know too > > > much?" > > > > > > I agree with this guy. Gurus should not only know the "powerful and > > > flexible" commandline way, but the easy GUI ways of doing things in > > > order to help newbies get started with Linux. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > You are currently subscribed to luau as: scott@belford.net > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst('Email.Unsub') > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to luau as: bfarnell@gte.net > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst('Email.Unsub') > > --- > You are currently subscribed to luau as: dusty@sandust.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst('Email.Unsub') "Linux is for people who hate Windows. BSD is for people that love unix."