I just want to let you know I in no way meant any insult to the victims on the planes, but just find it so amazing that they allowed themselves to be controlled so easily.  It is almost a parallel with our fight today with getting people to realize MS is controlling them with flimsy crap and they refuse to do anything about it. But on a totally different scale.

Maybe I am just a different person than most.  I have had a gun to my head, a knife pointed at me, and I argued with the punks with the gun, even though I only had $20.  I remember in 1985 when TWA flight 847 was hijacked by terrorist with guns and grenades.  A US sailor attempted to overpower the hijackers (who had guns and grenades).  He was killed, but he died refusing to be controlled by fear.  It does appear that the flight that crashed into the field had a struggle between the passengers and the terrorists and that is very sad as is this entire event.

And yes, our intelligence agencies have done some things that lead to very bad people doing very bad things, but WE did not do any of those things.  And we did not support them.  The "School of the Americas" is designed to teach Foreign Internal Defence (FID).  FID is a primary mission of our special forces.  We go in and teach our allies how to defend them selves.  We do not control them and very often that knowledge is abused in ways it was never intended.

I do not think that our Intelligence Agencies should not have oversight, but I think they should be allowed to be more aggressive.

Dusty


> 
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 12:59:37PM -0700, Dusty wrote:
> > This is insane!!!!!  I can't believe that this country has gotten so full of wusses that three psychos with knives and box cutters can hijack an airplane full of people!!!  I would have kicked some dumb knife wielding mofo's ass if I was on one of those planes.
> 
> Yes, this was a horrible tragedy.  I do not, however, believe that ANY of us would have acted different from the passengers had acted.  Your statement, while probably sincere, is angry and thoughtless; an unintented insult to the innocent passengers who perished on those planes.  The hijackers had probably taken hostages at knife-point and made their demands with the threat of death.  In light of what the passengers and crew knew of at the time we would have capitulated to their demands- it was the sane thing to do.
> 
> 
> > We need to let our intel agencies do their jobs over seas and not rope them in with bleeding heart crap!  They need to be able to infiltrate the enemy to find out what the enemy is doing.  To infiltrate you have to fit in and you can't be a school boy that follows the US Constitution and fit in with terrorist!!!!  Yes they will do things you won't like, but you don't have to do those things personally and they will hopefully protect you from this type of horror!  Remove the shackles and let our intel opertatives in foreign countries do what is needed to get the job done without repercussion.
> 
> Fighting terrorism is good.  Bringing those responsible for the attacks to justice is obviously the priority for our intelligence and law enforcement agencies.  "Removing the shackles" of the constitution, as you put it, is a big big mistake.  Some of the biggest tragedies of the past half-century were caused by CIA agents with large expense funds and permission to bend the law.  
> 
> Remember the School of the Americas?  The Contras?  Pinochet?  Marcos?  Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge?   Stepping off of our ethical foundation in order to attain an immediate goal will ultimately create a failure larger than the initial problem... and belittle the Constitution in the process.  There are reasons that half of the world hates the United States of America, and few of them have to do with the idiotic fatwas of Saudi Princes. 
> 
> 
> > But DO NOT remove my civil rights!  Don't tell me I can't use crypto and hamper technology because the US has become too pussy to fight terrorism.  The only way to use a computer to stop a terrorist with a knife is to heat him about the head and shoulders with it!!!!  All the code breaking and information security in the world is not going to stop a low tech attack!
> 
> A regimine of US Sponsored infiltration, deception, cointelpro and assasination won't prevent our government from making insensitive foreign policy decisions either.  We'll be seeing more of these attacks in the future until we address the root of the issue.  
> 
> Remember, we trained Osama Bin Laden. 
> 
> 
> 
> peas,
> Charles
> 
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