[luau] Re: LUAU digest, Vol 1 #544 - 14 msgs

[Jimen Ching]

On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Eric Jeschke wrote:
>Unless you have some very specific compute tasks that can benefit from
>Altivec optomized code, I can tell you that you will not get anywhere
>close to the bang-for-the-buck that you get with x86.  This seems to be
>the general consensus on the net and my own experience in running Linux
>x86 and Linux PPC confirms it.  All you get is a more limited platform
>that runs slower and costs more (for the vast majority of tasks).

I assume this conclusion is based on Apple hardware?  You could say the
same for IBM hardware.  You're just paying the premiums on the logo.

>Apple does make great hardware, but they are way behind in the processor
>race, no matter how elegantly they try to spin it in their marketing
>materials.

I heard the opposite.  I heard the higher clock rates of the Pentium 4's
give you no advantages.  I heard clock rates of 800Mhz is all you need for
home use and most business use.  I also heard that an 800Mhz PowerPC out
performs an 800Mhz Pentium II/III, and consumes less power.  Of course,
performance benchmarks these days are heavily dependent on other things
besides CPU clock rates, like cache size/speed, and other processor
theories not related to the master clock.

>Don't get me wrong: I love my iBook running Yellow Dog Linux; but for
>browsing the web, email and similarly non-compute intensive tasks (I do
>curse the CPU at times :-)

Isn't the iBook still using G3 processors?  I believe these processors max
out at 600-700Mhz.  But most of the G3 systems I've found doesn't come
anywhere close.  What is your processor speed?

>IMO, if you want to run Linux on a desktop or a server x86 is the clear
>way to go at the present time.

I think this used to be the case.  But after doing some research, I found
out a few things.  First, Apple's hardware seems to be really under
powered.  If you do a search for the Macs that came out between 2000 and
2001, they are all G3 based, and under 500Mhz.  There doesn't seem to be
any good reason for this.  Second, I found lots of information on
upgrading your PowerMacs.  Clearly, Apple's customers also think the
hardware coming out of Apple is under powered.

At this point, the only advantage that x86 have over PowerPC is the
software.  There are clearly more software available for x86 than Macs.
But for Linux, this advantage disappears.  Of course, Linux on PowerPC is
not as mature as Linux on x86.  But for the parts that I care about, it's
close enough.  ;-)

Below is an email I wrote to the HMAUS mailing list.

--jc
-- 
Jimen Ching (WH6BRR)      jching at flex.com     wh6brr at uhm.ampr.org

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Here is what I'm trying to do.  I want a dual 1Ghz PowerPC G4 system.  I
will be using this system for personal software development as well as
using multimedia applications.  Most likely at the same time.  Some of the
apps I'll be working on will be multimedia apps.

I don't want to buy a PowerMac for 3000 to 4000 dollars, only to discard
all of the software.  Not to mention the premium on the Apple logo.  I'm
not too thrilled with that white tower case either.  :(

So what I've done so far is search google for a PowerPC desktop.  The only
thing I've found so far is TerraSoft's Teron motherboard (based on Mai
Logic's chipset).  There are two problems I have with this system.
First, it uses the PowerPC 750 microprocessor.  This chip max'es out at
600Mhz clock speed.  The second problem is that, it seems, this processor
is soldered onto the motherboard.  This means I can't upgrade it myself if
I wanted to.  This system is exactly what I want, except for these two
limitations.

The second board I found is the Pegasos microATX motherboard from bplan.
This is basically the same as the Teron.  Some say the Teron is based on
this board.  The Teron uses the ATX form factor, while Pegasos uses
microATX. The major difference between these motherboards is that the
Pegasos has a CPU slot.  Other differences include on-board sound and
Ethernet.  But that is minor for me.

bplan's website specifically says this CPU slot supports a dual G4 upto
1Ghz.  But the same website doesn't mention anything about this CPU card.
And that is where my problems began.  I basically have two questions.

1.  Is this "CPU slot" standard?  The only CPU card I've found are upgrade
daughter cards for the PowerMac's.  From the pictures of these upgrade
cards, they don't look like they will fit the CPU slot on the Pegasos.
Where can I find CPU cards for this motherboard?  I'm looking specifically
for a dual G4 version.  I believe bplan has a single G3 version already.
Also, if someone could point me to some technical specs on this CPU slot,
that would be great.  I did a bunch of searches on google, and came up
empty.

2.  bplan GmbH does not sell this motherboard.  They go through a
distributor in France called Thendic.  The Thendic website doesn't give
too much information about the complete system.  All I can find is a link
to the specs for the Pegasos, which is already available from bplan.  The
main question I have is the power consumption of the system.  I.e. I can
easily find an ATX midtower case to house the motherboard.  But most cases
come with a 250Watt power supply.  Is this enough?  Note, it needs to
power two G4 processors.  I also plan to use an ATI All in Wonder Radeon
8500 AGP(2x) card.  AGP(2x) because that's what the Pegasos supports.

Since the Pegasos is designed to the standard microATX form factor.  I can
easily find components for it, like memory and host bus adapters.  I'm
thinking of using SCSI.  But my research shows that Firewire drives can
perform just as well as SCSI, and Pegasos already has Firewire builtin.
I still need to make sure Linux can support a Firewire drive.  But these
are minor issues compared to the two above.

I'd really appreciate any information this list can give me.

Thanks in advance.