[luau] MSWindows

[al plant]

Eric Hattemer wrote:
> 
> I've been busy lately, and never had the chance to reply to this message,
> but here we go:
> 
> From: "Jimen Ching" <jching at flex.com>
> 
> > On Sun, 28 Jul 2002, Eric Hattemer wrote:
> 
> I suppose I missed the logic in the first part of your message, so I'm
> cutting it.
> 
> > >Only about 1:5 times when I try to compile something in linux does it
> > >come out correctly.
> >
> > Let me get this straight, you are comparing the installation of windows
> > programs to the compilation of linux programs?  And for some reason, you
> > feel they should have the same difficulty level?  Or the same easiness
> > level...
> 
> Perhaps this is slightly unfair.  I've never compiled anything in windows
> that I didn't write myself.  However, this is because I didn't need to.
> That's just how I get a lot of programs in linux.  Only taking redhat rpms
> is like refusing to run any program not written by microsoft.  I have seen
> other organizations make redhat rpms for their programs, but often its for
> an older version of redhat.  Even if they are the right version, they often
> require odd dependencies, as mentioned in my last email on this subject.
> 
> >
> > >get things installed on.  Windows doesn't require that the user remember
> > >anything.  Do you really think most of the world moved away from the
> command
> > >line by pure chance?  No, it allows you to manipulate files and etc.
> without
> > >learning or remembering any commands.
> >
> > More evidence of brain washing?  You're telling me that you didn't have to
> > remember anything to use or install Windows applications?  So you were
> > born with the knowledge of the 20 to 40 odd menu options in MS-Word?  Or
> > the 5 to 10 dialogs for installing the new Inbox Express?  I guess
> > Microsoft must have found the technology to beam this information directly
> > to your mother's brain, and she passed it to you via the umbilical cord.
> > The Ctrl-C to copy and the Ctrl-V to paste is learned through osmosis,
> > right?
> 
> As for installing, I put the CD in, it says, "would you like to install
> this," then I say yes, yes, next, next, finish.  If I forgot how to do this
> each time, it would be no trouble to figure it out again.  I didn't mention
> use of MS-Word.  However, if I had, I would have had a clear case.  Just by
> looking through the file menus for word, you can mostly tell what they do.
> Now there are some obscure ones, but I simply don't need to use those ones.
> However, if I ever found the need, the words in the file menus match up well
> with the intended functions.  So its quite possible to find out new
> functions intuitively.  Compare that to something like vi, which may be
> faster or more powerful, etc, but really takes a lot of work to learn.  Oh,
> and about the ctrl-C, ctrl-V, I suppose its not pertinent information that
> those are written on my keyboard, but I could find those in the file menus,
> and conveniently enough, they have the keyboard shortcuts written in.  This
> is another example of learning the slow but easy way first, then eventually
> moving to the harder yet faster method.
> 
> > I am the type that says: "I wish the people, who wants to use Linux, to
> > learn the tools the right way, rather than expect it to function like
> > Windows.  Even if that means learning vi."
> 
> Would it be acceptable for us to use emacs?  Its laid out in a much more
> intuitive way.  Even pico is easier to use than vi.
> 
> >
> > As for pushing the responsibility towards the user, that is exactly what
> > Microsoft does.  The only difference with Linux is that it is not
> > Microsoft.  And that just ticks you off because we are asking you to
> > relearn what took you years to learn already.  Why should you have to
> > relearn anything at all to use Linux?  Linux should just do it the
> > Microsoft way.  Because that is THE RIGHT WAY, THE ONLY WAY!
> >
> > Take a look at KDE and GNOME as evidence.  Those developers believe as you
> > do.  Why re-invent the wheel, when Microsoft did it right the first time?
> > Microsoft has brained washed the entire planet to the point where people
> > defend it without knowing why.  It is sad, but it is also reality.
> >
> 
> If the command line were definitively better, why would anyone have left
> DOS?  Windows sold well because it was easier to use than DOS ever was.  To
> get people to use win3.1 didn't take "brainwashing", it just took them
> seeing how easy it was to use.  Now I haven't used gnome in a while, but KDE
> has many customizations and themes that allow you to make it look very
> different from windows if you want.
> 
> Now I'm not saying the command line should be eliminated or anything silly
> like that.  I use the windows command propmt for things like ping, ipconfig,
> nslookup, etc.  I use the linux command prompt on a regular basis.  But I
> think that the command prompt should just be for more obscure functions, or
> for advanced users who find it faster to use; not for beginning users doing
> basic operations.
> 
> -Eric Hattemer
> 
> > --jc
> >
> > P.S.  Do not for a moment believe that Microsoft is unique.  Give Red Hat
> > a chance, and they will do the same.  I don't believe there is anyone who
> > is reading this email believes that AOL, Oracle, Sun, Viacom, or any other
> > conglomerate wouldn't want what Microsoft has.  Don't believe for a second
> > that these companies don't want to use the same tactics to achieve the
> > same goals.  We hate Microsoft because it affects us the most.  In the
> > 70's and 80's, our older colleages before us hated IBM and AT&T for the
> > same exact reasons.  The young believe they invented the rebellion.  But
> > the only new thing is the technology.
> >
> > --
> > Jimen Ching (WH6BRR)      jching at flex.com     wh6brr at uhm.ampr.org
> >
##############


Eric,

Learn it all. Give you something to do, brah! Then we call you when we
need help. :)  


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